The following letters were posted on the Robot Wars Forum from 8/13/98 thru 8/14/98. They are just some interesting topics talking directly with Tom Gutteridge from Mentorn:

Message 4527
From: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
To: (SYSTEMERROR)
Posted: 8/13/98 1:36 PM

??we shall pay you a royalty of two and a half percent (2.5%) of revenues actually received by us in the UK (after the deduction of all third party costs and expenses and taxes)?

I have done some licensing of toys (see "Twelve Caesars" on my web page). And as part of that enterprise, I have studied everything I can get my hands on regarding toy contracts and royalties.

Royalty rates vary with different types of toys. For something like a game, it might be 5%, but if the product is well known (like Star Wars), then the rate can be much higher. The rates I am talking about are based on the wholesale cost of the item NOT on any "profit" that might be left over after you deduct "all third party costs and expenses and taxes". The reason these expenses are not normally included in a royalty contract is because it leaves too much opportunity to employ "creative accounting" to make it appear that there are no profits. And you shouldn't have any expenses anyway. The only expense I have when I get my royalty checks, is the cost of the gas to get me to the bank to cash the check. All other expenses involved with producing, distributing, promoting, and advertising the toy is paid by the manufacturer.

The second point I want to make is that the 2.5% that you are paying is NOT a royalty on the products, it is a royalty on YOUR royalty on the products. This is a well-known technique in the toy business to trick unsavvy inventors into signing up for only a tiny percentage of what an experienced negotiator would demand. If the royalty that you receive from the toy maker is 10% and you offer 2.5% of that to the robot inventors/builders, then what they actually get is one quarter of one percent.

Lets do a little math, If a toy retails for $20, it might wholesale for $10. Your royalty on that might be 10% or one dollar. 2.5% of that would be 2.5 cents. Subtract from that your "expenses", and we are lucky to get a penny. Now divide that penny evenly among all the robot builders. If we have 200 robot builders, you would have to sell eight million dollars worth of toys before each builder got enough money to pay for just one of those toys!

I suggest that a much more equitable division of the royalties that you receive is to split them 50/50 with the robot builders. An offer like the one that you propose might make some of us think that you are trying to take advantage of us. Please correct me if anything that I have said above is untrue.


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Message 4552
From: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
To: (SYSTEMERROR)
Posted: 8/13/98 9:21 PM

Didn't you know? There is no prize money in the UK Robotica/Robot Wars. After you build your bot with your own money (no sponsorship stickers allowed on the air), you are expected to go to a rehearsal, and a film shoot that could take a few days, and during which, a fat announcer can tell the world that your robot looks like it belongs in the trash (that actually happened). Then if you DO manage to win against over 100 other robots in your weight class, you get a big fat nothing, and you have to pay an entrance fee just for the privilege! Oh, and don't plan to enter any other contests with your robot for 5 or 6 months, because you have to sign away your right to do so.

I know of no other televised sporting event that prohibits the display of sponsorship. Why has the BBC made this rule? I suspect that there is no such rule. If I am wrong, could someone at Mentorn set me straight?

I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the USA, we have some really awful television quiz shows. Some of those shows send their contestants home with a new car or tens of thousands of dollars for doing nothing more than spinning a big wheel with letters on it, or answering some inane trivia questions. The people who enter Robotica-type events are the hardest working contestants in the world. Some of us have spent years developing our robots. With the kind of viewership numbers that Robotica/Robot Wars is pulling, they should be able to afford something more than absolutely nothing for the prize purse.

That is exactly the kind of treatment that got a lot of our industrial workers unionized. If the sponsors of Robotica type events want to prevent that from happening, they have to take away any reason for us wanting to do so. In fact it may be too late. Almost every other sport has some sort of association who negotiates for, and generally watches out for the interests of it's members. When the Robot Union becomes a reality, they will remember who treated them well, and who didn't. Mentorn is not yet in my "didn't" book because they have only put on one event, and we can attribute the problems to growing pains. To make everybody happy might take only 1% of their budget, and my guess is, being the smart business people that they are, they will understand that it would be in their best interest to do so.


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Message 4557
From: Jim Smentowski (MACSHACK)
To: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
Posted: 8/13/98 11:18 PM

> With the kind of viewership numbers that Robotica/Robot Wars is pulling, they >should be able to afford something more than absolutely nothing for the prize purse.

Excellent point- the fact is that they (Mentorn) know this very well, but that changes nothing, since they were the first to televise something like this and with the response they got the first year, they know that no matter what, year after year, they will always have more than enough brainwashed competitors spending all their own money, doing all their own work, and lining up outside Mentorn's door to work for free.

Mentorn knows they have a gold mine here, they're certainly not stupid.

Jim Smentowski - Hercules/Junior


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Message 4564
From: GRIDIRON (GRIDIRON)
To: Jim Smentowski (MACSHACK)
Posted: 8/14/98 3:42 AM

If its any help the first show cost them approx 6 million, now this sounds a lot so I'm inclined to be very dubient about it! but it's what I was told (then again I was told building a robot was a piece of piss!!) the trophy's of which I saw last year were to say the least DIABOLICAL the wood bases were chipped they looked like some trainee engineer with a uncontrollable twitch made them (Look paw ay may'd a twov'y)

aaah back to work

GRID


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Message 4565
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: WARPFIELD (WARPFIELD) UNREAD
Posted: 8/14/98 3:44 AM

No, robotwars.co.uk, which will be linked to the Mentorn site, also under construction.

Why should the BBC be "edgy"? The problems in the US are nothing to do with our TV series. The BBC schedulers are coming over to watch the show next week. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>



Message 4566
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: Dan (BSMFIRST) UNREAD
Posted: 8/14/98 3:46 AM

I think it will probably be closer to the US format. It certainly won't take the shape of the UK TV format. We want as many as possible to compete, and plenty of blood and guts. Regards, Tom


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Message 4568
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: bc (BOBCOUSINS)
Posted: 8/14/98 4:02 AM

Thanks for your reply. If you write to Robot Wars London W1E 1AW they'll send you a form and you return your cheque to them.
As I said before, people who build robots own them and can do what they want with them. We own merchandising only insofar as it relates to Robot Wars -- i.e. if the robots become famous in their own right, or through another competition, the owners can sell whatever merchandising they want and we won't take a penny. As most people who buy toys, etc, do so because of their connection with the TV series, we're offering a share of our royalties on any merchandising (other than exploitation of the actual film) which includes likenesses of the robots in the Robot Wars context. There's probably going to be a sticker series, for example, which includes pictures of all last year's contestants -- everyone will get a share of the stickers sold.

By the way, the Open Competition in February will probably have a cash prize -- if we get enough sponsorship. Regards, Tom


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Message 4570
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
Posted: 8/14/98 4:09 AM

No sponsorship is allowed on the BBC for any entertainment show. It's a publicly funded broadcaster, not a commercial broadcaster -- there are no commercials on it either. It's part of the BBC Charter with the Government. IF ONLY sponsorship were allowed, we could make RWUK much bigger. We actually make the show at a loss and are hoping to make up the balance with merchandising etc. Regards,

Tom


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Message 4576
From: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
To: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
Posted: 8/14/98 8:04 AM

Does that mean that you can't broadcast an auto race if the car has a sponsors sticker?


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Message 4578
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
Posted: 8/14/98 8:12 AM

An Auto Car race isn't an entertainment show!!
Tom


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Message 4579
From: BOB (PITZOID)
To: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
Posted: 8/14/98 8:17 AM

What kind of auto racing do you watch?

BOB



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Message 4580
From: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
To: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
Posted: 8/14/98 8:50 AM

Sorry, I don't understand the point you are making. Why would it matter if the drivers of the machines are inside or outside of their vehicles?


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Message 4582
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: Carlo (CARLOBERTO) UNREAD
Posted: 8/14/98 9:04 AM

I know it sounds crazy, but under the terms of the BBC Charter there is a distinction between an event which is televised (like a sporting event) i.e. one which would have happened even if the television wasn't there, and an event made specially for television. The latter type can't be sponsored, and this applies to Robot Wars. It doesn't apply to our February event, which will happen whether or not the BBC broadcasts it. This means that none of the robots in the series can have sponsors' branding -- but they could in the February event, which may not go out on the BBC.
Sorry if this is confusing -- we have to live with rules like this! Regards,
Tom



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From: Carlo (CARLOBERTO)
To: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE) UNREAD
Posted: 8/14/98 10:00 AM

So it sounds like all we have to do to get around the no-sponsor rule, is make the event open to the public and sell tickets. I understand how that would be a hassle for you, but maybe if the February competion works out well, you could do it that way from now on. Thanks for setting me straight on that point.

Do I understand you correctly on the royalty issue? The only way Mentorn gets paid is through these same toy sale royalties? No other income source as a result of Robot Wars? If that is the case, then I can see why you need to keep the lion's share of that money, But My guess is that you get paid in other ways. Set me straight again if I am wrong.


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Message 4594
From: Tom Gutteridge (Mentorn) (GUTTERIDGE)
To: Carlo (CARLOBERTO) UNREAD
Posted: 8/14/98 10:44 AM

It would also have to be a bona fide sporting event (i.e. not an entertainment show). Interesting problem, no?

On the finance matter, as I said before, we aren't out to exploit anyone and we don't want to steal anyone's ideas or rights. At present we have only managed to sell the RW IDEA to merchandisers, not the robots themselves (except the house robots) but hopefully some of the bigger characters will catch on with the viewers and will become as famous as the show. We'll know by next April when the series ends. Obviously if one particular robot gets famous, I expect the owner will do his own merchandising/promo deals: they just can't connect the robot to our series without our permission. And we have the exclusive right to sell merchandising of a particular robot in a form which connects it to our show: outside this, they can do what they want. I hope all this makes sense. I'm sorry I can't give you more specific details, we're bound by various secrecy agreements and some are commercially sensitive, as I'm sure you'll understand. I was very amused by one correspondent in this forum who talked about a 6 million pound price tag on the show. If only we had 1 per cent of that!!!
All the best,
Tom